MIA Facts Site

Report of the
Senate Select Committee
POW-MIA Affairs:
Appendix 6c

DIA Shields
06/25/92 Sen. Robb: In reviewing your
testimony, I do not recall seeing any
reference to any coordination with
the CIA during the course of your
testimony or analysis. I'm just
curious, was there any that related
to this particular matter, the whole
question of POWs and MIAs?

Shields: Well, there was, Senator.
Most of that coordination was
accomplished through the DIA and the
intelligence areas. We asked that
the CIA be included and they were

DIA - Critics Tighe
06/24/92 Trowbridge's people were besieged
with the political... the pressure to
examine, the challenges to reports,
and so forth. And it became an
almost impossible task and... I think
I probably would have given up a long
time before this.

DIA - Critics Tighe
06/24/92 Vice Chairman Smith: Did you ever
have any indication that your work
space was bugged during your work?

Tighe: It was the conclusion,I
believe unanimous conclusion, of each
of our members that our room was
bugged through the telephone system.

DIA Trowbridge
06/24/92 During the war, DIA's efforts were
focused almost exclusively on trying
to determine who was being held
prisoner and where they were likely
being held.

DIA Trowbridge
06/24/92 CIA monitored and focused the
worldwide POW/MIA intelligence
efforts and expedited communication
with the policy makers.

DIA Trowbridge
06/24/92 Today, the POW/MIA issue is looked at
through the lens of 1992, which is a
lot different than what they were in
1973. We've learned an awful lot
since then. DIA Trowbridge
06/24/92 ...intelligence analysis is not an
exact science... We have to make the
best judgement we can based on the
information we have, and that is what
we did. DIA - Critics Trowbridge
06/24/92 ...we might find that report would
correlate to several incidents.
Duplicates of the source's debrief
report would then be put in each
man's file in the hope that
subsequent information would then
become available. DIA Trowbridge
06/24/92 Hanoi's June 1966 announcement that
our captured airman would be tried
for war crimes drastically focused
intelligence community attention on
this issue. DIA Trowbridge
11/06/91 Sen. Grassley: ...if you or any one
of your colleagues in the
organization has ever made even one
mistake in analyzing live-sighting
reports, it could mean that we have
left someone over there against his

Trowbridge: I think about it every
day, sir.

DIA - Critics Wiand
12/01/92 It was the general finding of the IG
(Inspector General) team that the
PW/MIA office was performing a unique
function in the United States
Government which was likely to
continue for many years to come. The
function was assessed as being
overexposed to outside pressures and
organized in a fashion that did allow
for efficient operation.
Intelligence analysis and morale
suffered as a result.
There was no evidence of illegal or
improper activities.

DIA - Critics Wiand
12/01/92 However, as documented in a report at
the time of inspection, analytical
work in the PW/MIA office was being
conducted on the assumption that some
Americans were still held captive in
Southeast Asia.

DIA - Critics Wiand
12/01/92 It is my recollection that the
February '83 POW/MIA inspection was
routinely scheduled as part of the
overall 1983 inspection schedule.

DIA - Critics Williams
12/01/92 ...I don't choose to think that
people were inept, but there was
certainly a lot of bureaucratic
fumbling around trying to figure out
what next to do.

DIA Williams
12/01/92 ...as a former military officer
having served in Vietnam and 31 year
service, 28 years of those in
intelligence, there was no mindset to
debunk consciously and there was
certainly no effort to cover up... we
are darn sure going to pursue every
lead as though it were a viable
active lead.

DIA` Hargis
12/01/92 My charter was to investigate these
allegations to determine if
inappropriate procedures were being
used by personnel in the DIA PW/MIA
office, when dealing with individuals
coming forward with information
concerning POWs and missing in
action. DIA` Schlatter
12/01/92 ...the answers lie in Hanoi.

DIA` Schlatter
12/01/92 We found that while the office had
fairly comprehensive collection
requirements, they were not really
being actively managed and
upgraded... the special office [for
POW/MIA] was too exposed to outside
influences... there were not
sufficient resources in the office to
accomplish its mission.

DIA` Wiand
12/01/92 The inspection findings were treated
seriously and the senior management
of DIA focused on the problems
documented and on taking corrective

DoD Usry
11/15/91 I am confident that the
Administration... really wants to do
the right thing. I do not necessarily
believe they want to do the right
thing because that is where their
heart is. I believe they want to do
the right thing now because it is a
public issue and there is a committee
here that is going to look at them
and perform oversight to ensure that
they are going to do the right

I do not believe that everything the
Defense Department did was wrong. I
believe in many instances they did
good work, but in those instances
when they were wrong, we are dealing
with human life, or the possibility
of a human life... the point of
departure if I were looking at this
would be the day these hearings
started and everything before that
should be reviewed.

Families (Carr Collins)
12/03/92 Vice Chairman Smith: Did you ever
see or hear of any live-sighting
reports on your husband?

Collins: Never, but I know that
there are some now.

Vice Chairman Smith: There are some,
and I don't know anything about the
validity of them, so I don't mean to,
you know, mislead you in that regard,
but there are live-sighting reports,
and you have not seen those. These
are during the war.

Collins: During that time, no, I did
not. I saw some in 1991. I was sent
them from Hawaii.

Vice Chairman Smith: There is a
live-sighting report, one that I know
of. This is during the war, not
after, in which he was allegedly
captured in Laos by North Vietnamese

Again, I think this -- I bring this
up because it's another example of
the problem and the reason why the
committee's here, and the reason why
sometimes information that -- if this
information were put out in the
public domain, the opportunity for
fraud would be less, I believe,
because you could simply go to the
documents, but when the documents are
held secret and kept in secret files
for reasons other than national
security, in my opinion, that --
therein, you know, lies the problem.

If your husband was the subject of a
live-sighting report, you should have
been told that, and you were not, and
yet, even today, if you bring the
witnesses up here tomorrow, they'll
say -- the Government witnesses,
they'll say, well the families are
provided all information. Here's an
example right here. You have not.

Families Bardsley
...I feel like in my five days in
Vietnam that I found out more about
my father's case than I've learned
from the Government in 25 years.

Families Carr Collins
12/03/92 ...you become obsessed. You cannot
sleep, eat, work, because you would
waltz with the devil to bring one man

Sen. McCain: There is no possible
way that I can express the sympathy
that I and the people of this country
feel for what you have been subjected
to. I can only tell you that we will
continue to honor Donald Carr's
memory and appreciate his service and
sacrifice to this Nation and to the
cause of freedom.

Families Carr Collins
12/03/92 After the analysis had come out from
Los Alamos and Dr. Charney I began to
doubt my own view of the picture,
which was there was a slight
possibility there could be Don. I
mean I just -- I did not know. But
something that my son said to me sort
of turned me around. He said mother,
that picture is obviously an
American. I mean he looks like an
American to me. He said he's
somebody's father, he's somebody's
brother, husband, cousin. He said if
there's a chance in a billion that
it's my dad, I've got to do

So with that, that's when I started.

Families Collins
12/03/92 I, as an MIA wife, was frustrated by
knowing little, being left out of the
loop, and it seemed at times being
treated as the enemy, more feared by
the administration and military
intelligence than the North
Vietnamese whom we should have been
unified against.

This was typical of the attitude of
the government in those years.

Families Collins
12/03/92 Most of us have been tempted at some
point to participate in some form of
POW rescue based on nothing more than
questionable and circumstantial
information at best, such as
unverified photos, live sightings,
and anonymous reports. If it sounds
hooky and mystic, it probably is, and
it almost always plays a very cruel
hoax on the families by raising false

I am very pleased to know this
committee will take up these issues
and problems in the near future, and
hope this will eliminate once and for
all the con artists, and clear the
way for those who are credible and
knowledgeable to resolve the long
standing tragedy of our MIAs.

The closed-door attitude of the
government, which stared and became
ingrained in the early war years, has
contributed greatly to making the
families vulnerable and prey for the
antiwar activists on the left and the
con artists and mystics on the right.
If the government was silent to their
questions, then where were they to go
for information and help? Some
elements of both groups meant well,
but their impact has been cruel to
the families.

Families Collins
12/03/92 Had they brought us into the loop,
telling us the things that we had a
right to know from the onset, we
would never find ourselves in this
position today.

Had they trusted us, brought us in
the loop, talked to us, told us these
things and said, hey, we need -- we
are going to tell you this, but this
is for family only. See, what they
did was, they said you don't need to
know this. Now, you know, if you
were to let this out, this could
cause his death. Now, you wouldn't
want to do that, would you? I love
that old hang that guilt trip on

Families Collins
12/03/92 ...the old military cliche that wives
and families should be told nothing
and should know nothing was, and I
presume to some degree is still the
rule. This is an overreaction to
legitimate military security needs,
and has probably resulted in more
inadvertent leaks through ignorance
than if the spouses and families had
been brought into the network in
matters that concerned them.

Families Collins
12/03/92 I hope that never again will families
of the missing will have to literally
take to the street. This is an
additional burden on them in this
time of grief and hardship which
should not be necessary. The MIA
families have had to keep up this
effort even until today.

Families Fleckenstein
...that isn't all of it either,
because when I was looking to get
fingerprints, I went to the Hall of
Records in downtown Los Angeles. They
had no birth certificate on my son,
but they have on the other two of my
sons. I went to Sacramento, they have
no birth certificate on my son. DMV,
the hospital records, there are no
fingerprints to be had anywhere.

Families Ford
Senator, the current practice, or the
practice certainly in the past, has
been to provide the families with
information that has been correlated
specifically with their loved ones --
as opposed to all the information
that happened in that year, or that
area in which their loved one was
lost. Part of that was privacy
concerns -- of giving information out
about other families' cases, and
partly it was [protecting] sources
and methods.

I think that over the years, the
families have grown dissatisfied with
that. They understand that there is
more information that certainly is
not associated directly with their
loved one, but they would like to be
able to look at it and see if we miss
something... Quite frankly, we've got
to find a way to satisfy that
requirement. We have got to find a
way to give the families more
confidence that they're seeing
everything that we've got.

If there are some things that are so
highly classified and sensitive that
we can't show it to them directly,
that they can have the committee or
someone with a security clearance
check it for them... We're going to
find in the very short term some sort
of an answer for information for the
families. Families Ford
12/04/92 ...we didn't lose our credibility
with you, with the families, with the
American people overnight and we're
not going to gain that credibility
back overnight. And I can sit here
and I can tell you about what we're
going to do and I can talk about it.

The only thing that is going to
persuade people is our actions and
our results, and to prove over time
that we are serious, that we do mean
what we say, and that despite
occasional setbacks, despite
occasional human errors, we're going
to demonstrate over the next months
and weeks, years, that we can do it
better than we have done it in the
past. And that's our only
commitment, to try. And if there are
problems that this committee
uncovers, we'll try to fix them.

I hope that also when you find good
things, particularly about the people
in the field who, far from the
limelight, far from the excitement of
Washington, are on a daily basis out
there slugging it out, oftentimes in
very primitive conditions. And I
hope that your visits to the region,
your discussion with these people,
you can also say some good things
about them.

Families Griffiths
11/06/91 The vast majority of the POW/MIA
families are realistic. We don't
expect miracles. We expect
seriousness by our own government,
Executive and Legislative branches,
rather than spontaneous reaction to
the squeaky wheel or the latest
editorial. We expect adherence to
established policy and implementation
with integrity, not comments from
unnamed senior officials which
dismiss facts and principle in the
perceived interest of political or
economic advantage.

Families Hrdlicka
12/03/92 In 1977, the Air Force Casualty
Office contacted me and advised me
that they were going to review
David's case, and unless I had any
new evidence that he was alive, they
were going to declare him dead. I
then stated that I had no evidence
since I was not allowed access to

Why is it that the burden of proof is
always on the families?

Families Hrdlicka
12/03/92 If these men are not alive today,
it's because they were either
starved, executed, mistreated, or
simply died of broken hearts in the
last 20 years it has taken to go
looking for them. They know where my
husband is. I know this. My family
will not rest until we find the fate
of David.

Families Kerry
11/15/91 I think one of the most important
things that could come out of the
early days of these hearings is a new
structure, and a new relationship
process with the families. Families O'Grady
11/06/91 Hundreds of families have stories
just like mine. Yet there is not
enough time for each of them to come
forward and speak. Even when we
appear before you, we must prove our
loved ones are alive by a standard
not required of the United States
Government to prove them dead.

Families - PFOD

06/25/92 The reclassification process had no
impact upon our resolve to pursue
this issue.

Families - PFOD

06/25/92 Equally moving was a meeting with the
wife of a missing American pilot
whose plane had been shot down over
North Vietnam. She told me she was
desperate. She explained that she had
lived in suspended animation for I
think six or seven years. She wanted
to know whether the United States
Government thought her husband was
alive or dead.

She could ask the Pentagon what was
known about her husband's fate which
might lead to his being reclassified
from being missing to being dead, but
she told me that she was
psychologically incapable of
initiating such a review. She felt
that in some sense her request for a
review would be an abandonment of her
loved one. She wanted to remain
faithful to her husband as long as
there was any hope and she would do
nothing to destroy that hope. But if
the Government informed her that her
loved one were dead, she would then
reluctantly seek to rebuild her life.
That is what her husband would have
wanted her to do especially for the
sake of their son.

She felt that the Government owed her
its best judgment about her husband's
fate without her having to do
anything to ascertain what that
judgment was. She requested that the
Government change its policy and
implement an automatic review of all
cases including that of her husband.

Families - PFOD

06/25/92 The Government owed it to the New
Jersey soldier and others like him,
as well as to their families and
friends, to persist in a search for
them as long as a straw of hope of
their survival existed and to recover
their remains if all hope had

But we also had a responsibility not
to arouse false hopes and unjustified

Families Otis
12/03/92 Sen. Reid: What more do you think we
as a committee could do that we have
not done?

Otis: If you could even just -- what
I've been wanting is for the public
to really care. And I know it's been
really too long, but the Government
and the media didn't press this in
the beginning. They just assumed
everybody was dead. And we felt so
abandoned because not only did our
Government or the media care, but the
public didn't seem to care.

Families Otis
12/03/92 Nor are we any longer in limbo, as
are the families of the missing and
of those known to have been alive in
captivity. Ron Dodge finally came
home, and credit goes in large part
to the wives and parents and siblings
who founded the National League of
Families and to the families and
concerned citizens who are still
prodding and pleading and

Families Otis
12/03/92 Commander Dodge's status change
hearing was in February 1979. The
next of kin had to prove the missing
serviceman alive. The Government,
with all of their resources, did not
have to prove him dead.

Families Quast
11/06/91 I have been promised at a very high
policy level access to my father's
file, but denied access by those
people who have testified before this
committee when I went to see the
file. I'm asking, what is the policy
and who actually runs the show for
the POW policy?

Families R. Smith
12/04/92 By the late seventies, remaining MIAs
under President Carter's
administration were simply declared
dead. One memorandum dated May 26,
1977, from the Secretary of Defense,
stated that in the long run
continuing to carry these personnel
as missing in action would force us
to make concessions to Hanoi.

Families Reid
12/03/92 ...I do hope that there can be some
guidelines set that, if, in fact,
something like this happens again, we
do not have this on-going personal
calamity in the lives of everyone
connected with somebody that is shot
down or is missing in some way.

Families S. Morrissey
12/03/92 I was invited to talk about the
family liaison with the POW/MIA
agencies. Simply put, the agencies
of our Government responsible for the
MIA issue do not provide us, of their
own volition and in a timely manner,
all information that they had about
my father's fate, despite their
often-repeated promise to do just

Families S. Stockdale
12/03/92 When our National League incorporated
in the District of Columbia, one of
our stated goals was to achieve the
fullest possible accounting of our
men who were missing in action, and
here you are, 27 years after that
briefing for Carrier Air Group 16
wives, trying to untwist that braid
of lies and deceptions that have
indeed emotionally involved the
American people and have brought
shame and disgrace on our country.

And I will be quick to point out we
are not alone in our history of lies
and deception about prisoners of war
and the missing in action. It seems
to me that the one consistent thing
the North Vietnamese have done for
all 27 years is lie about our
American prisoners and missing.

 Families S. Stockdale
12/03/92 Even though some of us wives knew we
were being fed a steady diet of lies
by our Government, we also knew that
to publicly denounce our Government
while it was engaged in war would be
to play into the hands of the enemy
and dishonor the very men for whom we
sought humane treatment.

Families S. Stockdale
12/03/92 In order for you to put your findings
into context, it's important that you
understand the extent to which we
wives and families were lied to and
patronized by our own Government.
The Johnson Administration gave us no
help whatsoever when we wanted to
organize ourselves. And it was in
spite of them that we were able to
have 2,000 telegrams on President
Nixon's desk the day after his
inauguration in January 1969.

Families S. Morrissey
12/03/92 I was 16 years old when my dad was
shot down. Dad was 42. He was a big
man with a good sense of humor and a
big appetite for life. He liked
sports cars, bagpipe music, Irish
whiskey; he fished, he rode broncos
in the Rodeo; he loved New Mexico and
the Air Force.

I remember him vividly, and miss him
terribly. Nonetheless, I have long
been resigned to the fact that he's
almost certainly dead, and resigned
to the fact that I will probably
never know what happened to him, but
that does not relieve me or you of
the obligation to try to find out
what did happen to him.

I don't expect the impossible, only
the confidence that the Government
that ordered my father into combat is
doing all that it can to determine
his fate and that my family knows all
that this Government knows.

Families Schlesinger
09/21/92 I have spent a large part of my life
and put a lot of emotion into this,
Shields said. It was such an
enormous issue and we were dealing
with human beings. I knew their
wives, I knew their sisters, I knew
their brothers. Though he is years
away from direct involvement, Mr.
Shields said he is still invited to
weddings and the other family events
by relatives of the missing.

Families Smith
12/03/92 Vice Chairman Smith: When did you
know, when were you told by the
Vietnamese that your husband was
alive? How long was he a prisoner
before you knew?

Collins: Tom was missing four years,
two months, and two weeks, and I
received a letter from him in
Christmas of '69. Now, I knew before
then, but not through anything the
Government did. I found on my own
that Tom was seen alive in Hanoi in

Vice Chairman Smith: How did you
find that out?

Collins: I cannot tell you that,

Vice Chairman Smith: All right, that
is fine.

Collins: I cannot testify in an open
hearing as to how I found this, sir.
I was more fortunate than most family
members. I had friends in high

Vice Chairman Smith: Do you have any
reason to believe that anybody in the
United States Government knew he was
alive and did not tell you?

Collins: Oh, yes, I'm certain that
they did. See, here we come back to
the beginning.

Vice Chairman Smith: So people in
the United States Government knew
your husband was alive and they did
not tell you.

Collins: Yes. Fraud Brooks
12/01/92 ...there also is a category of people
at work surrounding the POW/MIA issue
which I will categorize as
professional predators...

Fraud Kerry
12/02/92 Some people have seen fit to
literally fabricate photographs and
to distribute those photographs
alleging that they represent the
loved ones of families in this
country. The hopes of families have
been unfairly torn and tattered as a
consequence of those actions. That
is a predatory action. It is a
disgrace. People who do it, I think,
rank as low on the scale of
measurement of human behavior as you
can get. There are just no words
strong enough to condemn the
activities of people who will
knowingly distribute a photograph
alleging that they are today held
when they know that photograph is a

Fraud McCain
12/02/92 ...I and other members of this
committee have urged the Justice
Department to investigate allegations
of POW/MIA fraud. I certainly hope
such an investigation is by now well
under way. The information which the
committee's investigation yields
should be of valuable assistance to
the Justice Department in its efforts
to prosecute those people that have
used this issue to intentionally
deceive decent people.

Fraud McCain
12/02/92 It will also come as no surprise to
my colleagues that I am somewhat
disappointed by the limits of time
and scope placed on this hearing in
our investigation. And this is not a
criticism of you, Mr. Chairman... Nor
is it a criticism of committee
investigators, who in my view have
done an exemplary job in a short
amount of time and under difficult

I understand the committee had a
great many subjects to address in the
span of 1 year and not all subjects
could receive the attention they

My disappointment is mitigated,
however, by the knowledge that
standing committees of Congress will
again have jurisdiction over all
questions concerning our POW/MIAs
after the Select Committee finishes
its work. And thanks to this
committee, Congress' awareness of
this issue and its responsibilities
to continue the work of this
committee has been greatly

Fraud Sheetz
12/01/92 Sen. McCain: How much of the effort
that your organization is engaged in
has been -- how much of your assets
have had to be diverted to tracking
down the bogus pictures and the

Sheetz: At times, Senator, I would
tell you that that process has
literally precluded us from doing
anything else. Because the political
pressure has been so intense and the
high interest among the people in the
Government, this committee, the
American public, to know what is the
truth on those cases...It's an
opportunity cost argument.
Essentially, what you're doing is
dropping the work that would probably
have more payoff to chase after
things that ultimately turn out to be
useless exercises.

Fraud Sheridan
12/02/92 ...I too know of a family that was
defrauded of many thousands of
dollars. Somehow, those people have
to be recognized and they have to be
dealt with. And they cannot be
allowed to get back out on the street
and do this the next time an issue
comes along. I feel very strongly
about that.

Fundraising Albrecht
12/02/92 Sen. Reid: That is important. You
say that 90 percent of the
solicitations --

Albrecht: Of this group that we have
evaluated, better than 90 percent
probably are spending --

Sen. Reid: Meet the 60 percent

Albrecht: That is significant, and I
think it is important that we bear in
mind that there is a lot that is
right and good that is going on in
this field, although we still are
just as concerned, as we should
always be, about misleading
solicitations, about creative
accounting, and about ineffective

Fundraising Albrecht
12/02/92 ...I first need to emphasize that
these practices are far from
universal, though they are spreading
at a disturbing rate. In fact, 76
percent of all the national charities
reviewed and evaluated by NCIB meet
all nine of our standards, including
those having to do with fundraising
practices and fundraising reporting. Fundraising Albrecht
12/02/92 There is a problem with creative
accounting in the field, exactly.
And there is a certain amount of it
that goes on.

Fundraising Albrecht
12/02/92 Vice Chairman Smith: On 100-percent
of expenses, what is the acceptable
figure for fundraising expenses, out
of that 100-percent? Did any of you
say? You might have said it, and I
may have missed it.

Mr. Albrecht: We've taken a close
look at 30 percent. By that we mean
we get more information. Is the
percentage going up? Is it coming
down? Are they in an acquisition
campaign? Are they a new

Fundraising Allen
12/02/92 It's kind of like a consumer-beware
kind of notion. And people being
asked for the funds need to be very
careful and ask a lot of questions.

Fundraising Allen
12/02/92 ...I think everyone wants to make it
a level playing field, and one where
the public can have the trust that it
has long held in this sector.

Fundraising Allen
12/02/92 As a matter of federalism, I think it
would be unrealistic to think of a
Federal role that would take care of
the problem.
At the same time I think, personally,
there is a role for the Federal
Government, and probably a larger
role it could play that could include
prosecutions by the Department of
Justice and the U.S. Attorneys more
extensively than we now see based on
larceny and based on fraud.

Fundraising Canada
12/02/92 Each one of these ideas are
techniques, Senator. Techniques to
convey to the prospective donor what
Colonel Bailey had already related to
us. Techniques used in direct mail
fund raising to raise money for our
client so that they go ahead and
continue their programs.

Fundraising Eberle
12/02/92 Mr. Eberle: Senator, I still fail to
see how that differs from when you
have a speech inserted in the
Congressional Record and then it is
printed in the Congressional Record
as if you gave the speech on the
floor, how it's any different.

Chairman Kerry: It is extremely
different. Because all of our words
we are responsible for here and
everybody understands that. And the
speech does not purport to be
anything other than the speech.

This purports to be something other
than what it is.

Fundraising Eberle
12/02/92 Chairman Kerry: You cannot say,
please excuse the handwriting, but I
am writing at a makeshift desk. He
was not writing at a makeshift desk,
was he?

Mr. Eberle: No... Fundraising Eberle
12/02/92 Senator, I will have to be honest. I
have no idea whatsoever and I have no
idea why there are quotes around
there. I'm sort of reminded of that
comment by Elizabeth Barrett Browning
when she was asked, why did she write
a particular thing in a verse and she
said, when I wrote that only God and
I knew and now only God knows.

Fundraising Kerry
12/02/92 ...you sit here and say to us, gee, I
only got $100,000, but that is really
disingenuous, because the total fee
produced by this which benefits you
or your family or partners is
significantly more than that.

So you sit here and say you only got
this amount of money when in fact the
charity, quote, winds up with
$200,000 against $1.9 million raised.
I find that unconscionable and

Fundraising Kerry
12/02/92 What I'm saying to you is, there is a
body of evidence out there that has
never been in the public domain. It
should have been in the public
domain, and now that it is in the
public domain, I think if you read
it, and those in the press take the
time to read it, you will find that
there is a basis of evidence, a basis
of information that provides a
rationale or a reason for documents
like that being written, as was the
league document being written...

There is a body of information like
this throughout this government and
some of it has never been disproved.
Much of it has not -- much of it is
bunk. A lot of it is bunk. A lot of
it is garbage and it has been proven
so. But a lot of it has not been

But there is a distinction between
that and a letter that goes out for
six years saying, P.S., some of our
captive Americans are in failing
health. Now I guess they knew that
in 1986, 1987, 1988, 1989, 1990,
1991, 1992, same letter. P.S., they
are in failing health.

Fundraising Kerry
12/02/92 ...I must tell you, I mean we have
just found some bold-faced,
non-accurate statements. Each of you
suggest this is the information you
are given and you had no reason to
believe otherwise. I have no way of
saying otherwise, obviously, so I
accept that. But it leaves us in a
terrible quandary. And you know
what? It leaves a lot of families
and a lot of American citizens
sickened, sadden, victimized as a
consequence. And we should not allow
that to happen in this country.

Fundraising Kerry
12/02/92 ...As part of this arrangement she
elicited from InfoCision an
under-the-table rebate without her
clients knowledge and characterized
it as 3 percent rebate to her. She
entered into a management consultant
agreement with VVnW, and under this
agreement she was to receive $5,000 a
month plus 10 percent of the net
income of VVNW. And I would just
read from a portion of that
agreement: "expenses related to the
performance of this agreement will be
categorized as program expenditures
on the clients financial statements
and tax returns. Neither the
existence nor the details of this
agreement will be discussed by either
party with any member of the

"The essential points would be that
one of the letters, a solicitation
letter, read as follows: Thanks to
your support, Veterans of the Vietnam
War have sent a delegation to Vietnam
to negotiate for the release of our
POWs. During these meetings in
Vietnam, the Vietnamese leaders told
our representatives that American
POWs are still alive in Southeast
Asia, exclamation point. Capital
exclamation point..."

"Our representatives have been to
Southeast Asia to meet with
Government leaders to break the
deadlock. Underlined: The
Vietnamese have admitted that some of
our men are still alive..." Fundraising Reid
12/02/92 ...a lot of the money that is raised
is based upon people's fears,
prejudice, sympathies, and sorrows,
and there is no better illustration
than some of the stuff that we have
gone over today.

Fundraising Reid
12/02/92 ...the point that I was making is
that we have your fees plus all these
subsidiary companies, of which you
said you don't receive remuneration
from those, but your family does. I
think it pretty well speaks for
itself. Fundraising Salta
12/02/92 To advocate a cause, to seek to
disseminate information to the
public, are important in a
democratic, pluralistic society such
as ours. That is why Congress has
steadfastly provided for a relatively
low-cost universal mail delivery

Nonetheless, someone has to pay the
postage, the printing, the paper, the
envelopes, the copywriters, the
graphic artists, the data processors,
list owners, and other vendors that
it takes to produce and mail a direct
mail package. Plus, there needs to
be some money left over for the
charitable cause. Not every cause
can find a sufficient number of
citizens out there to foot the total

Fundraising Salta
12/02/92 Mr. LeBoutillier being, again, a
credible man, the advisory board that
he had some of the more distinguished
military people on it -- McDaniel,
Graham, Colonel Hopper, Major General
John K. Singlaub, many celebrities.
We had to believe that information
that Mr. LeBoutillier was giving us
was correct and accurate. Fundraising Salta
12/02/92 I don't know that it's legal, but if
we got one out, it would certainly be
a wonderful thing, I can assure you.

Fundraising Salta
12/02/92 As best we can determine at this late
date, my company was paid
approximately $100,000 during the 6
years that we worked for Operation
Rescue. This amounted to 10 percent
of the total amount of funds raised.

Fundraising Salta
12/02/92 Sen. McCain: ...Now, if I could
direct your attention to number 5
there it says this guy is held out
and then marked out, he survived the
downing of his airplane but with a
badly broken femur. He is guarded by
the, the blacked out, in contact.
Getting ready for some serious fun
and games in this case.

Now, in 1987, if my information is
correct, this was sent out. Someone
in your organization might have
thought in the intervening years,
since we have not gotten any of these
claims corroborated in any way, no
Americans came out, no additional
corroborated information, et cetera,
that maybe you ought to stop to
evaluate whether you are sending out
what clearly is an invalid message.

On the middle one, it says remember,
some of our captive Americans are in
failing health. Did you ever ask
them how they knew that some of our
Americans were in failing health?

Mr. Salta: No, I did not.

Sen. McCain: ...Mr. LeBoutillier
claimed that they suffered 65
casualties in their efforts, and you
printed that. Did you ever ask to
see or talk to any of these? Did
any -- any -- of the allegations
raised here, were any of them ever
questioned by you and decided not to
be sent out?

Mr. Salta: By me personally? No. Fundraising Stern
12/02/92 Mr. Stern: With due respect, Senator
Kerry, the highlighted
statement -- what is the gross
fraudulent text of it?

Chairman Kerry: I read it to you,
that as many as 650 of our men are
still currently being held. And the
inference that the Select Committee
provided that information is a very
clear writer's trick. You do not
have to be a genius to understand
what is happening there.

Garwood Knecht
12/01/92 The final area concerns the Garwood
He had in his initial debriefings
reported that he had not seen any
Americans. But then in later
interviews that were in the press and
in interviews of DIA, he said that he
had these sightings. DIA could not
find the locations that would
physically map where some of these
things took place.

Garwood Shields
06/25/92 While Congressman Montgomery was in
Hanoi being assured that no Americans
were being held captive in Vietnam,
Arlo Gay was being held at Son Tay
prison and Tucker Gougelmann was
being held in Chi Hoa prison in
Saigon. Gay was later released but
Gouglemann died in prison and only
his remains returned home. Garwood Sieverts
06/25/92 Sen. Brown: Are there other names
like Garwood where we submitted and
asked and they simply would not make
a response?

Sieverts: A great many. Just about
everybody... we provided them with
the entire MIA list. And then,
shortly thereafter, the entire MIA
and BNR lists... the MIAs and BNRs
would simply be listed alphabetically
without that faintly adverse
indication that one is killed, BNR,
the other is MIA.

Garwood Sieverts
06/25/92 Sen. Brown: Did this Nation, during
all those years, ever specifically
ask the Government of North Vietnam
if they held Bobby Garwood?

Mr. Sieverts: The answer to that is,
Sen. Brown: And what was their

Mr. Sieverts: No response at all.

Sen. Brown: They did not say that he
was not there, they simply did not

Mr. Sieverts: That's correct. Garwood Vessey
06/25/92 Chairman Kerry: So a statement in
1973 that there is no indication that
anyone was alive would simply be
inaccurate, would it not?

Vessey: I would say yes. You could
say we have no firm evidence or
something like that, but certainly,
the discrepancy cases we have were
clearly discrepancies that were
unanswered at the time.

Policies and
Actions Burch
11/06/91 The POW/MIA Interagency Group is said
to be in charge of coordinating a
policy on the highest national
priority. What is remarkable about
this group is the list of absentees.
Neither the Central Intelligence
Agency, the National Security Agency,
nor the Drug Enforcement Agency has
membership on that committee.

Policies and
Actions Cheney
11/05/91 I think the reaction of the
will be set by me and by my presence
here today. I think that I have
indicated to everybody who works for
me that we take this matter very
seriously and that our mission is to
cooperate with the committee, to
benefit from whatever guidance and
oversight you care to give us, that
Congress has a very legitimate role
to play in this area.

Policies and
Actions Cheney
Senator, I would be happy to see to
it to the extent that I am able from
the standpoint of the Department of
Defense that there is no retribution
against anyone who would provide
information that is useful to the
Committee and during the course of
your inquiry.

Policies and
Actions Cheney
11/05/91 With respect to how the Department
operated in previous administrations
over the years that set a tone or a
stage where families of POWs and MIAs
in Southeast Asia believe the
Department was less than truthful, I
am simply not responsible for [that];
that was not on my watch. Government
Policies and
Actions Grassley
06/24/92 ...the amount of stonewalling that
went on, what a contrast to have a
former communist open up documents of
their government to members of our

Policies and
Actions Kerry
11/15/91 It is no fun, as a foreign officer,
having your bona fides questioned.
The committee is not questioning them
in a way that I think some are. The
Committee is trying to sort out who
knows what... you are public
officials and the system has come to
a grinding gridlock of lack of
credibility and we have got a
requirement here to sweat it out. You
understand that, but I just want you
to know that I think there are a lot
of extraordinarily dedicated people
who are committed to this issue who
are working day and night to try to
find out if somebody is alive and to
bring them home. Regrettably, we are
where we are because there is a then
and a now to this issue... To the
degree we can sort out what happened
in the past and understand it, we are
going to help to understand this
issue today.

Policies and
12/02/92 The war in Southeast Asia was a very
long war. Thousands upon hundreds of
thousands were involved either
fighting the battle or waiting at
home. You could take each one of
those individuals and you're going to
get a different perspective of that
war meant to them, depending on the
time frame or the military service or
what the person was doing at home.

I would like to think that our
Government has done everything that
they've needed to do, but we hear
from time to time that may not be the
case. We do believe that the
Government should be very

Policies and
Actions Smith
Over the past 45 years, we have seen
not only zealous but jealous guarding
of information by the Executive
Branch... it would be one heck of a
lot easier if, in fact, the Executive
Branch would cooperate with the
legislative branch and get the truth
out to the American people totally,
unequivocally... That is what we have
asked for. That is what the American
people want... We would not have a
investigation today on any of this if
the information had been put out an
given to the American people. So I
expect cooperation. The cooperation
thus far has been good... but it has
not been total and it has not been
easy getting all of the information.

Return to SSC Report Table of Contents
Go to next section